Sunday, March 11, 2007

The Day Hitler Became A "Funky Dude"

I want to thank those who sent in either comments or email in regard to this really serious breach of moral ethics that took place on Absolute Write. I have received to date over 93 emails from over 60 individuals, some members of Absolute Write, others simply casual or first time readers of Cobwebs Of The Mind. All have expressed anywhere from shock to moral repugnance at what has been excused on a recognized "writer's" forum as something not to be embarrassed about (to say the least).

The following post has honestly been a few days in preparation. It is not only to show, as they say, "black on white" just what has been posted, but it is to show the utter hypocrisy and degradation of the very same people, owners, administrators, moderators and members who have been so vociferous in their defense of the swastika. They use words to try and intimidate as made crystal clear in foul-mouth land and in Absolute Write.

But first why? Why continue? The reason is simple. If this was just a show of idiotic moral depravity than we have made our point. But it is more than that. This has become a circus of hypocrisy and arrogance. It is not that the swastika and other symbols of hate are approved of - it is not the lines about Hitler that are approved of and other sick lines and cute posts - it is ONLY the lines about Hitler that are left. It is only those who post about such things who are defended.

This points to something more than stupidity. It shows insidious hate. It shows moral and ethical bankruptcy. It is sick, cursed and disgusting - and it damn well needs to be pointed out and everything must be done to stop it. This is not something to let lie and hope it goes away. Lots and lots and lots of people did that with the Nazis and I do not think we have to reiterate where that philosophy took them.

If you have not yet read the other posts describing in detail just what this is all about may I suggest you read in order as follows:
  1. Depravity, Disgust and Stupidity - Passing Ignorance Around Like A Venereal Disease.
  2. Never Again
  3. Doctrine Of The Lie
  4. The Banality Of Evil
  5. On The Bastardization Of Language
  6. Who Let The Dogs Out?

There are some things that amaze; there are others that shock; there are even others that horrify. Then there is just plain down and stupid. Ordinarily "stupid" should be passed over. Stupid, crass, foolish, hate-riddled people should either be ignored or locked up or just plain tossed on their ear and rear.

That is when hate is not "house-policy". But when it becomes "house-policy" then the only thing left to do is either move away and let the neighborhood go to the dogs and let all that dog-poo pile up - or take back the neighborhood.

Some of us prefer to walk away. Why deal with it? Who needs it? Sick is sick is sick. After all we have seen and heard, from bladder-weak megalomaniacs, to self-proclaimed language lovers who spew forth foul, vindictive idiocies, to sycophants who produce brothers, sisters and cats all who seem to either "embrace" becoming Jewish or becoming "gophers" - take your pick - it is a circus of hate.

So today we are going to make a slide show for all those wonderful hate-riddled hypocrites over at Absolute Write of their words and a few pictures.

The amazing thing about people who call others names while proclaiming their own self-worth is that they manage to point the finger at their own ignorance. Let us for a moment take a look at this cast of misfits that runs, administrates and moderates Absolute Write along with their very own fan club. Let us look at this cast and then look at their very own words for a few minutes. Let us take the time to read, think, judge and then either laugh or cry at just how ludicrous they sound while wearing the "King's Clothes".

You guys know the old saying - "Out of the mouths of Babes..."

We have a linguist who seems to seriously get off in some odd fetish-laden way by cursing and displays orgiastic anger when she is challenged; a woman who calling those who find her desire to purify the swastika a fairly disgusting and idiotic goal labeling all those who disagree with her - "uneducated"; a self-proclaimed writer, buying legitimacy by becoming an owner of a writer's forum board where hypocrisy and double-standards are the game of the day and she is the worst of the offenders; and a whole bunch of well - frothing dogs - who live for the attention; a child who is not really a child - suddenly become a Buddhist while writing pornography and linking to pages with the word "Swastika" emblazoned throughout. He brings with him yet another child who lives on Internet chat rooms, and seems to be completely bereft of friends her own age except for virtual people and a totally witless mentality where without even beginning to understand that nature of stupid deed, calls for the "taking back and purification of the swastika". (Bet you she has a pet dog and half a cat that sooner or later we will hear embraced Judaism somewhere along the line.)

This is some of our cast of people. Of course we could go on and on - the actors are all second and third rate. The only one of merit, if you call what he writes with merit, seems to think that hiding from swastikas will just make the problem go away. Kind of an "Ostrich mentality". He is a conundrum of sorts, I admit it. The only excuse is that if you take away his "professor chair" at Absolute Write, well no one else is going to offer him one or pay attention to him. So one might say he needs to protect his turf. While this is legitimate for him, it becomes loathsome when we are told that by "putting an offensive signature on ignore" and allowing it to stay so that others can see it - solves the problem. Indeed this is ignorance at its best or worst. Here is what this great author had to say: (As usual picture of post included then the quote in case you cannot read it.)

Absolute Write Author Genius
If someone's sig really offends you, the Ignore button is at your command.

Here's how to use it:

Click on the person's name (on the left of the post). The first choice on the drop-down menu will be "View Public Profile." Select that.

You'll see a dark-blue line with the words "Add Name To Your Buddy List" and "Add Name To Your Ignore List." Click on "Add Name To Your Ignore List."

You will never be troubled by that offensive sig again.
No, you won't be troubled by that offensive signature. But, scratching my head in a bit of disbelief here... Why don't the moderators do that when they find something not to their liking as well? I mean it is easy to make hate go away. Just put it on ignore! Hey, why didn't we think of this 5000 years ago. Ignore the problem and it will go away! By golly wiz! Woohoo! Now I know why so many people in Absolute Write gravitate to asking questions of this genius. With such clarity of thought, such incredible erudition and intelligence - we have solved the problem. Ignore the hate mongers. They will disappear. Magic!

I mean just a couple of days ago, didn't the Forum Board owner get so mad in a discussion that this is what she said: (I am only quoting the end here, because she said some fairly personal things which have nothing to do with our discussion. And btw.. Bird is a piece of human garbage which we discussed in a previous thread, known as BOP. And he should have gotten banned for what he said. But then again he should have been banned for the lies he told about Jews before as well. Ah well...) First of course the actual picture of the post lest you think I am kidding. Click to see it really well with all the wonderful words and such.

Absolute Write @ Its Best

Quoted below is the last paragraph of this post:
I'm closing this thread. I don't want to see one more goddamned word about this from anyone. You want censorship, Bird? THIS is how censorship works
Why didn't Mac just put Bird on ignore? Problem solved! No need to get upset! All done!

And so we shall deal with this cast today, in the only way the can be dealt with. They want a grade B soap opera - then by golly gee - we are going to give them a grade B soap opera. You have to appreciate true ignorant people when you meet them - you really have to appreciate them.


Here is what happens when you ignore people. They put comments up - then are forced to retract blaming it on their great sarcastic funny bone. You guys remember this one from our previous posts, don't you?
And those nasty comments about Hitler should stop too. He's a fellow writer, and yet people keep making personal attacks against him.
And of course how could you not remember our intelligent, witty, sarcastic laden friend Louqax don't you? We discussed him a couple of posts ago in "Who Let The Dogs Out?"He was the one who said the following:

Cobwebs Of The Mind

You can click on that picture to get true real up front and close view of his great statement which is:

"Hitler had the right idea, he was just an underachiever."

Well then you thought - you had seen it all didn't you? I mean it was written, posted and left there. So you really thought - hell now I have seen it all. Well, think again.

Out of the Internet World comes another genius - member of the "I want to be recognized for the great, intelligent writer that I am" crowd. All of 25 years old, and already making a name for herself. I just cannot wait to meet the agent that signs this "writer" up.

Cobwebs Of The Mind

Just in case you cannot read this message of intelligence and wit, let us lay it out for you. (You can also click on the picture of the post to get it up front and close!)

"I respect Hitler too. He's a funky dude"

Now in the best case scenario the poster of this piece of Einsteinian wit will come back and say since there is a smiley next to that line - that shows it was meant in humor and sarcasm. So before this idiotic statement is made - let us see who she is calling a "funky" dude. Someone who was responsible for the world being enveloped in war and the mass murder of millions. Hmm... This is someone you call a "funky" dude in joking? This is something you joke about?

This is coming on a board where people are supposed to show a modicum of intelligence?

Let us assume for the moment that we are dealing with a below average intellect here (fair assumption I would think). Then why the hell is this post left up? Why was it not immediately deleted? Oh that's right! Respect for the fellow writer. I forgot that rule. How dumb of me!

So first we have one named Mac, who comments:
And those nasty comments about Hitler should stop too. He's a fellow writer, and yet people keep making personal attacks against him
Then we have Loquax who puts in his smart comment about Hitler being an underachiever, then we have TrulyAnna, another great genius calling Hitler a "funky dude".

Does anyone see a pattern here? Does anyone see the picture these great writers are painting for us? Are those who travel the Internet Byways into Absolute Write, so morally deficient, corrupt and weak that they do not see the problem here?

Oh but we are still not done, and I do admit I almost skipped over this following comment made by this piece of human garbage. Until .. well until... you will see. First the picture (so you can click on it to get real close and personal and sick) then the quote spelled out all pretty for all of us to see.

Cobwebs Of The Mind

Just to print this out for those with bad eyes.
"Nazi Germany had some benefits also. just like under any dictatorship, there was a rule of law and trains ran on time. not to mention many folks believe its grievances were legitimate and right.

But when someone flies a Nazi flag, other people can only think about the concentration camps."
Now to be honest, this anonymous twit is full of comments which are about as intelligent as the one above. Long ago I realized this is just a piece of human garbage. When I was emailed this comment by no less than 4 people in 4 different emails, I was tempted to let it go. Yes he writes in present tense. And yes the comment about "only think about the concentration camps" is very unnerving when thought about in a cold logical manner.

And I got to thinking. Out of all the statements to make - out of all the things to say nice about a dictatorship, (huh? that is such a stupid statement isn't it?) - out of all the analogies to make - you make one about the Nazis and Trains????

Forget the rest of this comment for a moment. Forget the fact that someone saying this should be ostracized so fast he would not know which way was up. Forget the fact that the rest of the comment is horrendous and hate-filled and sick. Forget it all.

Trains?????? Nazis?????????? Any child knows that the trains which this idiot praises - were the way the Jews were transported to the death camps. Any child knows that when you equate Nazis with trains you are doing so for ONLY ONE PURPOSE. This is what is good about the Nazis? The trains ran on time? More Jews to kill? Easier to clean the Jewish vermin from the streets? Faster way to make soap?


And so it goes on and on. But wait! Could there be more? You better believe it!

You do remember our favorite Linguist, don't you? The one who input her great intelligence into her post over at foul-mouth land? Her great words and all. The one who wrote a beautifully worded answer in her blog as follows:
Subject: Fuck off
You self-righteous piece of shit.

I know plenty of Jews who KNOW what the Buddhist symbol means and appreciate it. To pull this holocaust crap is scummy, in my opinion.
Yep this is what a linguist does. Don't that just blow the wind out of your sails?

BUT..wait! There is so much more. You remember the whole wonderful statement made by all these people that it is time to reclaim the Swastika. Time to forget its evil. Time to forgive and forget, and return its symbolization to something warm and sunny and so full of love.

Try this one on for size written by our very same Linguist AFTER she thought she was finished with the "scummy holocaust crap".

Now the discussion here was about gay lifestyle and all that. But let us see what Lisa the Linguist (LL) has to say about the use of words. Here is a picture of the post (just in case you do not believe me. You can click on it to see the original much clearer.)

Cobwebs Of The Mind - Absolute Write Hypcrisy

Let me quote this incredible piece of hypocrisy in full - just to make sure you get the idea and understand how truly hate-riddled this woman and her friends are.

There's a thing people of various groups, subcultures, religions, ethnic and racial groups do, of trying to "reclaim" words, or taking a word with negative hurtful power and removing the power of the word to hurt by using it voluntarily themselves. "A reclaimed word is a word that was formerly used solely as a slur but that has been semantically overturned by members of the maligned group, who use it as a term of defiant pride" (American Heritage Dictionary; see queer).

I understand this practice intellectually, but . . . I still flinch when I hear a someone I love use the word kike or fag or dyke to refer to themselves. I can't help it. It isn't conscious; it's a gut reaction, and emotional.

There's also a similar but very very tricky linguistic phenomenon where a non-member of the group or subculture can use the terms in some circumstances with specific members of the subculture and it isn't a problem.

That's high risk behavior. You'd best be very very sure of the person you use the loaded terms with. In many cases non-members are absolutely not sanctioned to use the loaded terms.

Part of my personal problem with "reclaimed" words -- and this is very very much a personal issue and about me -- is that I can't actually find any instance where such a word, a hurtful word, has been successfully reclaimed and has no power to hurt.

At the same time, I very much don't believe in not using words, in saying "the f-bomb" for fag. I'd rather say: This is a word with a troubled past and which has a wide range of loaded and potentially hurtful and inflammatory meanings" than by coy about it.

I've had two gay male friends tell me they specifically prefer to be called fag. can't, really, do it without flinching. I just can't. It's what they want, so I try, but I flinch. I can't disassociate the word from the pain that I know it's caused in the past.

I also struggle with the now pretty much standard word queer; queer has been mostly reclaimed in academic studies; you will find people working in Queer Studies and who in terms of literature specialize in Queer Theory, for instance.

Etymologically, to me, queer still means twisted, awry, bent.

I hate to think of people applying that meaning to themselves. I also hate the term straight for a heterosexual, since it implies things that are equally potentially damaging and hurtful.

I suspect that my emotional reactions are because, well, I'm a text geek, but they're still there. I still flinch.
Does this need any deep analogy or explaining? I would hope not. This woman states unequivocally that she knows that terms cannot be "reclaimed" because they still have hurtful meanings. They cannot be purified. She flinches at the term "queer". But she is willing to reclaim the SWASTIKA! She thinks this does NOT give pain?

Are you readers getting the picture? Do you need a map? Do you see the hate oozing through?

Oh but there is more!

You remember the commentor here, Jean Marie, who called us all uneducated for not realizing that the Swastika was originally a symbol of beauty? Remember her? We are uneducated. Well here is what she has to say AFTER calling us uneducated for not reclaiming the Swastika. Medievalist is LL - Lisa The Linguist!
Medievalist, I have to agree w/ you on the usage of the word "queer." I flinch, too. And it's because of the history of the word. I remember years ago, when it was derogatory;now it isn't.

I see Mac use it, and still flinch. I'm trying to wrap my mind around the reclamation thing. Maybe, I'll be able to...eventually.
Oh it is all right to reclaim a swastika but hard to use the word "queer"?

Tell me folks what am I missing here?

We must add the following. Simply because it kind of is one of those proverbial nails in the coffin. It is amazing.

Remember above that I quoted from a discussion that was then closed by the board owner because she did not like what was said (and she shouldn't have put it up with it either actually.) Remember she told "Bird" aka "Bird of Prey" aka "BOP" as follows:
I'm closing this thread. I don't want to see one more goddamned word about this from anyone. You want censorship, Bird? THIS is how censorship works.
Well here is what happened to Bird of Prey afterwards. Posted by LL, our cunning linguist, who is a super administrator on the Absolute Write Forum board.

Absolute Write Hypcorisy
I've given Bird of Prey a three day ban. I wanted to make it permanent, but MacAllister didn't. Bird of Prey has been given a fair amount of leeway, but has indulged in personal attacks to an extent that really can't be excused. Bird of Prey is right to be upset, and seriously concerned about violence against women, but needs to realize that insulting and attacking members, targeting female members, isn't going to solve a problem that women everywhere deal with on a daily basis, and have done for thousands of years. We do need to change behavior; but that includes the way we treat other people all the time everywhere. Including here.
Now don't that just blow you away? Bird of Prey is banned for three days and almost forever for making derogatory comments about women and violence. Well, this set them off. And as it should be - this anonymous piece of human garbage should have been banned from even using a computer the day after he made his appearance.

But folks. WAIT! Do not think for a moment that Loquax, Bravo, Mac #2, or TrulyAnna, let alone our Buddhist who links to Swastika emblazoned pages, got banned even for a second for their Hitler comments. OH NO! God Forbid. That people is freedom of speech!

You just got to love hypocrisy. You really got to love it! Someone should be taking their own advice.

I could go on and on. But for now we will let the above sink in. Since Absolute Write does ask for money from members, does run auctions for its coffers and does accept donations it is somewhat of a commercial enterprise. Customers, which in this case are members are kind of important. So this is my parting comment to those who partake in the running of this hate filled, morally decrepit universe.

Posts In This Series:
  1. Depravity, Disgust and Stupidity - Passing Ignorance Around Like A Venereal Disease.
  2. Never Again
  3. Doctrine Of The Lie
  4. The Banality Of Evil
  5. On The Bastardization Of Language
  6. Who Let The Dogs Out?
  7. The Day Hitler Became A "Funky Dude"

Posted On: Cobwebs Of The Mind


zentao said...

Ted, I must commend you on this post...despite the comma faults. Know that TD will not terminate its campaign to decry the AbsoluteWrite hatefulness and depravity exposed by this, to date, its most outragious demonstration of unethical, inequitable, and intolerable behavior, until and unless dramatic and perpetual changes occur which prove AW to have been rehabilitated to high moral ground...if such a thing is possible.

Paula's Poetry said...

Ted, this was well said!

Even though I have followed this from day one it still is unbelievable to see it all pulled together. It is actually pretty disturbing to be honest.
Even after all you point out they have not attempted to correct it. Not that they can undo the disgrace but they could certainly try to stop it from going on.

I’m all for a sense of humor, fun and all but there is a fine line of what is funny. What they allow to pass off as supposed humor is disgusting.

I also find it sad that the one you call LL is against a word that was derogatory. Sure it is offensive and hurt people’s feelings and it shouldn’t be used if gay people find it offensive. But, last time I checked, no one died because of this word. Never did it represent such horror and terror. Yet she can’t’ grasp the concept of this WORD!...

Please help me to understand how someone who self proclaims to be expert in so much wisdom and we the uneducated, unintelligent people find so much wrong with this.

She, the intelligent one, thinks a symbol whose history represents murder, should be allowed to be reclaimed. In her words “ It represents peace”

Yet a WORD, queer, should not be reclaimed because it hurts people’s feelings.

ODD… isn’t it.

Another oddity.. they suggest ignoring those you find offensive. Hmm Ignore is a derivative of ignorance. I may not be the worlds most renowned writer but I love words and the ways they are used. When you read all that has been said and then see them tell one to ignore what is offensive, they are basically proclaiming ignorance.

I too will always stand up for what is right. As I have said before, to ignore and do nothing is to allow it to spread.

When we unite we stand strong and proud, when we divide we destruct all that was meant to be good. If peace is to be achieved, then mutual respect is the first rung on the ladder of hope. The ladder of hope ascends to the sky, one sky shared by all.

Robert Toy said...

There is not a lot more to say except that AW does have some very clear taboos. No slurs/jokes regarding the mentally challenged; no overt misogyny and No French bashing. The later baffles me, but that’s the rule. Oh yes, and respect your fellow writer!

It also has been stated time and again that AW is a private forum, and like entering one’s house, Freedom of Speech is conditional at the discretion of the owner and mods. Therefore anything posted, and left on AW has the tacit approval of AW management regarding the contents of the post.

AW boasts some very impressive stats regarding the number of members and posts. However, if you look into it, you discover that roughly half of the “members” have zero posting, some joining as far back as 2005, and again roughly half the posting have nothing to do with writing…unless you want to count typing into OP, TIO writing.

Bottom line, the new AW management is not going to change, and AW will continue its rapid decline into a trash forum like hundreds of others where ranting is the order of the day.

AW’s brilliant reputation built and nurtured by Jenna Glatzer has gone to the dogs.

What a shame.

Anonymous said...

This continues to go well beyond unacceptable. I am baffled that a supposed group of writers are not collectively shocked or at least standing up against what is allowed. I would think at least a good majority of the members would have the decency to speak up and take a stand on what is right. There are some very disturbing things being let go and it sickens me to no end that it continues even after they have been made aware.

From an outsider this site looks like a free for all where anything goes. You mention somewhere that only certain things are not tolerated such as bashing France. That amazes the hell out of me. With that kind of mentality, are these people really thinking they will become published writers? Well I have a few great book ideas if they are interested.

“Humanity for Dummies”
“Because Of Ignorance”
“Basic Understanding of Right and Oh So Wrong”
“Peak A Boo, Hate I Don’t See You”

They should be written phonetically of course so those who claim intelligence can follow along. I believe it should also be a rather short book so as not to confuse them.

That forum should most defiantly be shut down and all those allowing it to continue should be forced to perform community service.

Take a stand and stop the hate. Live and help live.

Cyrena T

Anonymous said...

The more I read, the more I realize the hostility that was shown upon questioning and bringing the use of the swastika to their attention, is a pattern known to those who have pure hatred in them. It is sad to confirm the agenda of those involved.

Allowing this to continue is a crime. The slideshow was a bit shocking. They are things you expect to see spray painted on the side of a building by ignorant children. Never would I expect to see professional adults publicly display such distaste.

Never let your voice be silenced.

John Arsenault

Anonymous said...

Well now there can be no question in their minds.

You have done a wonderful job of laying it all out for them and to be quite honest, if they can’t see the hypocrisy in there own words then they really have no business go on with that forum.

As with the others who have commented, I am a bit shocked that this has been allowed to continue without anyone, let alone the owners of that site, taking a stand and demanding it stop.

I understand that maybe not everyone reads every post but the ones who do, obviously don’t care or seem to mind that this is allowed.

I shake my head in disbelief while reading some of what you have here.

It is said to Ignore offenders, Hitler was a Funky Dude, an Underachiever and that during the Nazi Germany administration at least the trains ran on time.

This is acceptable? This same lot of intelligence defend a word with all their might, yet, let this horror continue. Makes you wonder.

Great job on exposing the vile hatred for what it is. We must never give history a chance to come close to repeating itself.


Anonymous said...

To see it all laid out in this format really shows just how deep it runs and brings tears to me.

Can they still to this day deny they were wrong? Can they
still ignore all you have brought forth?

I hope, if they have a shred of humanity they will see just how unacceptable this is.

To strongly defend the use of a word, yet disregard suffering of people is beyond my understanding.

I continue to live each day promoting harmony to all who walk this earth.

Chantalle Frasier-Manning

Anonymous said...

I do not at all believe Teddy will let this comment stand, but I'll make it anyway.

Teddy, I'm saddened. I'm saddened by the extent to which you've taken things out of context, twisted them, and shown your own hypocrisy thereby. I agree that the "examples" you took, strung together the way you did, support your point - but they wouldn't, in context.

I take it I'm the girl who supposedly has no friends her own age outside the chat room? This saddens me too; the way you're happy to turn on people you used to be friendly with, when it suits your purposes.

I am a Hindu. I wish to use a Hindu symbol, and remind people that the Nazis twisted it and its meaning, and hurt us all in so many ways.

I don't know about you, but I've known that Bart is Buddhist since about the middle of last year, when I first met him. He is no sudden Buddhist.

Why, in the name of religious tolerance, are you disrespecting folllowers of other religions?

I know you won't post this. But I hope you've read it, and I hope you'll think.

Ted W. Gross said...

Just for the knowledge of anyone reading the above child. Let us just put the signature she walks around with to show the level of intelligence at Absolute Write. These folks I remind you are so-called aspiring writers. BTW .. she goes by the name of Shweta. The only question the below engenders is as usual, "Who Let The Dogs Out?"

Sig. Of Shweta:

"(Picture of symbol is here) is a hindu symbol too. It is a sun symbol, and it means good luck and peace. It does not mean anti-semitism or homophobia or any of those horrible things. The Nazis stole it (and got it backwards). We're stealing it back.

Enough said me thinks.

Robert Toy said...

Shweta,, it is rather odd that you’re stating your Hindu believes and posting of the “Hindu” symbol was made only after Bart’s controversial posting. I have stated it before, in the Western mind, the swastika symbol, no matter how twisted or turned will always represent evil. Stained with the blood of tens of millions of human beings it cannot be cleansed, the bell has been rung…and no matter how hard you try, you cannot un-ring it.

In the East it is a different story, but AW is a Western orientated forum and to post such symbols and ranting about Hitler and allowing it to remain is not only hateful and disrespectful to Jews, but every nation that fought and died to stamp out such evil.

This is not a matter of free speech, but good old fashion common courtesy, doing things just because you can does not make it right.

Bart’s expanding of his signature line only proves his immaturity and disregard for other people – not a very good Buddhist.

Have you studied the Nazi regime? It was not only the Jews who suffered, but a range of people who they felt were sub-human, gays, gypsies, mentally and physically handicapped, Blacks, Jehovah's Witnesses, etc. It surprises me that with so many openly gay members of AW, they have not raised the issue, or does the study of Nazi Germany atrocities only include Jews?

For your info:

Just a closing question to both Bart and yourself, do you honestly believe what you are both doing conforms to Buddhist and Hindu teachings? I don’t think so.

Anonymous said...

Defending the use of this, in the manner it was presented, shows a disregard to humanity. You can say it was twisted and tarnished by the Nazi's as your defense, but in the end it does not matter where the symbol originated, what matters now is what it represents.

Those who continue to whine on and defend it's use prove the lack of common decency.

You may continue to bring up other symbols and contradict yourselves, but until you show me another symbol that represents the murder of so many people and the hatred it still represents today, kindly
step back from ignorance.


Anonymous said...

I'm not pleased with the new management over at AW. Jenna ran the place with a kind and fair hand. Mac and her cronies, on the other hand, play a far crueler game.

Apparently it's ok to make light of Hitler over there, but God forbid you make a negative comment about homosexuals.

Akuma said...

"The amazing thing about people who call others names while proclaiming their own self-worth is that they manage to point the finger at their own ignorance."


David W. Clary said...

I hate seeing folks fight online (ok, I lie. I'd kill for a truly classic flame war), but this was an outstanding salvo, Teddy. I've always respected you for the strength of your convictions, and I think you're completely in the right here.

My only concern, though, would be in dismissing folks as human garbage. I understand the sentiment, and in many cases agree, but when you're attacking the point so hard and so well, you invite the other side to dismiss your valid points by giving them an easy out with which to point at.

Ted W. Gross said...

thanks David. Actually you may be right about using the term "human garbage". The argument should never have moved away from the awful display of what many obviously consider the moral depravity and insistence afterwards by displaying such a symbol.

Excuses of sarcasm, of humor about lines such as "Hitler was a funky dude", because of a smiley - do not cut it when you have a blue number tattooed on your hand.

So yes, the use of the term "human garbage" possibly should have not appeared. The use of morally depraved, ethically bankrupt, insidious hate and self-hate, and certainly intolerable behavior for those who consider themselves "aspiring writers" - that is most true and should appear.

It is something actually beyond comprehension. The awful display of total lack of understanding and comprehension at the "pictures" that such a symbol engender - especially when linked to a page emblazoned with the word Swastika, is truly beyond logic. It is simply hate in one its ugly permutations.

The display of hypocrisy has reached incredible heights.

But in answer to the awesome mob mentality, one requires patience.

At the time of my choosing and in the way of my choosing I certainly will deal with the most disturbing of the comments made on Absolute Write. With pictures - as they seem to be required.

Your comment shows courage as I know your affinity for Absolute Write. No anonymous names, no made up nik's. I respect that.

Thanks again


Oh and for those reading this, yes I will choose from now on what comments to publish. Due to the fact that I have gotten one comment too many from AW members, telling me in "sarcastic terms" just how underachieving Hitler was.

It is amazing how the same people, just a handful, keep on telling themselves how pristine,
intelligent and morally sound they are - even as the Holocaust survivor understands the true nature behind hate.

Hate always rears its ugly head, and silence is simply not an option. Period.

Tsuki said...

You know, Teddy, this blog would hold WAY more water if it were all true. These comments, in the context they're in, are rude and embarrassing. However, YOU have taken them out of context. Why not post the entire threads where these posts take place? Then the people who read this blog will be able to see that you have not only chopped debates, wrongfully exploited otherwise nice, caring, and respectful member, and defiled the name reputation of an otherwise extremely resourceful writer's website, but that you are an arrogant, blasphemous fool who is only out to pick at something.

I have to say that this is a mean jab at AW, and you're doign it for all the wrong reasons. One of the first points you made in your blog was that the religious symbols people have posted in their signatures are offensive. Have you even taken the time to look into what some of those symbols mean? One is often mistaken for a swastika- it is NOT a swastika, it's actually a symbol of peace. You've made a mistake (not surprising to me in the least) and anyone who knows what the sign means is probably laughing at home right now.

You also stated that AW was full of hate. You really think so? I haven't seen very many act driven by hate on the AW. These eman posts only come from a few members (funny thing is that the members you have posted on your forums aren't the hateful ones at all), and one of those members is YOU.

You've been rude, tastelessly brutal, sharp-tongued, and humiliating for as long as I've known you. This blog is a perfect example of that.

Again, Teddy, I would respect this blog SO much more if it were true. But it's not. It's an attempt to pick at something that shouldn't be picked at. It's pitiful that you, a long-term member of AbsoluteWrite, would go so low as to publicize a "problem" that completely inside your head.

Why not post the entire threads, so that the people reading this blog can see the "offensive" posts in CONTEXT? Why cut everything you can up so that it fits your story?


Anyone else who doesn't know- Yes, I am also an AW member, and one of the few brash ones at that. The majority of the other members on AbsoluteWrite are nice, caring, and helpful. I still say that AW is one of the most resourceful sites on the web for writers. Anyone who has not been to AW should not compare my post to Absolutewrite, because I am in NO way representing what they stand for there.

Anonymous said...

One small comment. As I was reading your blog entry and I read the quote about the Nazis and the trains, and I think you may have misunderstood. I could be wrong as I have no idea what the poster was originally thinking. I can glean however. You see the Germans have always been famous for having their trains run on time. It was something even people joked about (darkly I'm sure) if they had taken over England that at least the trains would run on time. It's a stereotype, that has to do with their efficiency and not the jews. It is unfortunate that the author of the post then moved onto concentration camps in the next sentence, but I really believe that the author was just trying to give an example of how the dictatorship worked for Germany, of the positive benefits of it. I always think it is important to remember the "good" things about a horrible regime, so that we do not fall into the trap of being so governed again. There was a reason Hitler was loved at the time, and we must remember that as well as the horrific stuff, so that no other country ever comes to the same position where they need a rescuer like Hitler again.

Anyway, my point is simply I really think it was an unfortunate accident the trains and concentration camp association. I really don't think from reading that post that the author meant that at least the death trains that took the jews to their slaughter ran on time. Sometimes online words don't come out exactly meaning exactly what we would have them (just to clarify, I am not the person who made that post, I read it for the first time on your blog).

Paula's Poetry said...

I imagine those who come here and accuse you of spreading lies and such have not read all of the comments left here by others. I call the attention to one person specifically, Renee. Here is a woman with FIRST HAND account of all the horrors associated with the symbol. This has gone way beyond a symbol now.

It has moved to personal agenda's of a certain power tripping woman willing to bring herself to a level of childness that even I don't understand.

The facts are this

You blogged about a symbol which is offensive.

Upon questioning, they attacked and ignored all who oposed their view

In the end, it does NOT matter the origin of the symbol, the fact that they are all sporting them shows it is being done in spite.

I am proud that I am NOT one of the supposed intelligent people they claim to be.

I choose people over symbols any day.

I'll support you until the end ..

Ted W. Gross said...

Tsuki...I let your comment up for one reason - to make it clear just what we are dealing with.

Let me understand this. A 17 year old child is telling me that the Swastika is a symbol of peace? You are going to make it all right and why? - because you like Absolute Write???????

Let me understand this. Holocaust survivors their children and grandchildren are laughing at home right now because you like AW and think that if they fed you some malarkey over there that is that?

You don't like my barbed tongue? Well I don't like looking at little swastika's all over the land.

Let me spell it out for you. Between AW and allowing people to defend the "peace and beauty" of a swastika - this Jew...yes Jew...with a NAME and not anonymous, is stating unequivocally: I will not be silent on this issue. Not if it happens in AW and not if happens on the street where I live. Period.

You don't like what I write here? Don't read it. No one asked you to comment here. But if you do read why don't you read just one comment. That of Renee. After all she knows what a Swastika means. She lost her whole family to the swastika bearers even if they did use a former peace symbol.

What is it you don't like? You don't like the fact that I put the posts up saying that Hitler was an underachiever. What the hell is taken "out of context" there? You think a smiley around the quote "Hitler was a funky dude" makes life all all right? Makes it forgiveable? Is to be forgiven and forgotten and laughed at?


Defiled a reputation? Why? Because I take umbrage along with quite a few other people at the display of a swastika?

Enough of this.

You know what. AW is a land within itself. Full of writers "aspiring" to be writers. That is where they should stay.

Do you have any clue, can you imagine in your darkest dreams, how many people at AW are disgusted? Where do you think all those little intellectual posts about Nazis come from? From people, actually lots and lots of people - totally and thoroughly disgusted at what you are defending.

Cobwebs Of The Mind is my blog. You did right by Absolute Write. You blew your horn. Now go collect your gold stars. You got it out. When you study a bit of history, know exactly what you are defending, and the utter moral depravity of that symbol of peace - which was adopted by the Nazis, and will forever be embedded in human consciousness as the symbol of evil - then come back to talk.

This AW love junk...has nothing ABSOLUTELY NOTHING to do with a symbol that served to turn human beings into soap.

When the owner of AW attaches to her signature a symbol trying to show how pure and decent it is...then all is said and done. It takes a stand. And whatever the consequences of taking such a stand as this... I am sure she is willing to bear.

And from now least in the world I live in and come from, I am not going to allow such utter moral depravity on this blog. Defend the hate-mongers elsewhere.

Ted W. Gross said...

Dear Anon - who quoted the Nazi and train post.

Perhaps you are right, perhaps you are wrong.

But that is what you wish to point out? This was an "unfortunate accident" in using words and associations? This "unfortunate accident" in words from someone who says they are an "aspiring writer"?

Associating trains and Nazis? An accident and then the next line is "unfortunate" with concentration camps another accident?

Sure as hell a lot of accidents and wonderful images brought to mind by someone who claims to deal with words.

Perhaps it was an accident of phrases. But then again some tend to see it otherwise.

Two possible views...two possible ways of looking at it. One would think such good writers would be a bit more careful with images and words they portray.

Loquax said...

Hi Ted,

My name is Ben Roberts, and I live in Manchester, England. I've been going to AW for a few years now, under the handle "Loquax". You, and anyone else, can contact me at bengetme(@) If you would like my home address or phone number, feel free to request it.

I would just like to point out that what I wrote was a quote from social satirist Bill Hicks. Our intentions were both light hearted, and do not represent our true feelings on the matter - such is the nature of satire and sarcasm. It disappoints me I have to point this out.

But what you have written about me and my friends is from the heart. Your insults are not jokes. Not only are they not jokes, neither are they directed at us. Your badmouthing is behind our backs, in the safety of your moderated blog. You did not contact me for explanation or an apology request. You simply insulted me behind my back and expected things to "get better". Your actions have been petty, immature, and quite frankly laughable for a man of your age and intelligence.

The difference between us is that your words are intended to harm, whereas ours are intended to crack a smile or raise an eyebrow. Our hearts are free of hate - yours is brimming with it. The poison in your words, and the disrespect you show to your fellow man, is disgusting. I want you to understand this, and I want you to seriously consider the intentions behind what you have written.

I also strongly suggest you direct your hate at the real problems of our world - not at the sarcastic ramblings of an online writing group. You have passion in your heart, and it needs a vent. Find something constructive to do - all you are achieving here is destruction and hatred. Do you really think our world needs more of that?

Or perhaps we need tolerance and the ability to laugh at ourselves.

If you'd like to discuss the matter further, please feel free to email me. However, as far as I'm concerned, this is over.


Tsuki said...

Again, Ted, it is NOT the swastika which is associated with Hitler and the Nazi party. If I were telling you that the Nazi swastika was a symbol of peace, I would be horribly, horribly wrong. The symbol that a few AWers have adopted into their signatures are from Buddhism and Hinduism, and they DO stand for peace. While the symbols look similar, they are NOT the same thing. Look it up for yourself. I promise you that you are wrong on this one. But I bet that you're not going to look it up, because then you'd be shown differently by a mere 17 year old, and boy wouldn't that be a blow to your ego?

I'm not posting on here out of fondness for AbsoluteWrite. I must admit that posting in their defense was my initial cause. Now, however, I'm posting on here because YOU ARE WRONG. Your pride has gone to your head, and you're too deep into your own pile of crap to admit to it.

As a Jew, you should get the symbol that has stood as a suppressive symbol to your people since before World War 2 RIGHT. You're attacking the wrong damn thing. Do your religion a favor and for the love of God point the accusing finger the right direction. I could understand where you were coming from if you were at least slamming the right thing.

"What in the hell is taken 'out of context' here?" Teddy, dear, EVERYTHING is taken out of context. You have butchered the hell out of every single on of these posts in order for it to fit your point! You have left nothing in tact, because you are well aware that if you did, people would be able to see that 99% of the stuff you've said is here is not only preposterous but complete baloney.

Here's a little bit of information for you:

In the Buddhist religion, this icon (that you have so wrongfully compared to the swastika used to represent the Nazis) represents Buddha's (Siddharta) footsteps. it's a symbol of good health, wealth, prosperity, well-being, infinity, abundance, and longevity. It's also used on coins in some cultures, and in many other denominations of the Buddhist/Hindu religion, it is used to as a symbol of peace.

The symbol that SHOULD be offensive to those of Jewish faith is a CLOCKWISE SWASTIKA ON A WHITE CIRCLE WITH A RED BACKGROUND.

The symbol of peace that you have mistaken for the swastika adopted by the Nazis (which, for your information, was stolen from the Catholic church) is what you've been ratting on this entire time.

Do not use my age to degrade me when it is clear that you, someone so much older and supposedly wiser than I am, is being foolish and doesn't know what in the bloody hell he's talking about.

By posting a blog like this, not only are you offending a group of resourceful, helpful writers who have done nothing wrong to you, but you are offending those of the Buddhist/Hindu faith (among other peaceful religions which have adopted the sign, including many other Pagan denominations). I could fully understand it if you were blowing steam because some insensitive person has publicly posted a sign which offends an entire group of people, but it seems that YOU, Ted, are the one who has done that.

Paula's Poetry said...

I keep seeing people tell you that you have taken comments "out of context".. Now I've been called unintelligent and ignorant so you may need to help me out here.

You have actual pictures posted with the comments made, by the person, yet, you somehow took it out of context? The words are there, but then I see, "Didn't you see the smilie after it?"

Oh, now I get it, it is ok to say anything, about anyone, as offensive as you like, as long as there is a smilie after it.

Renee don't get upset about the reference to the trains, he was just kidding. Don't let the comment of Hitler being an underachiever get you either,,, again, just a joke. ha ha . .come on Renee, you can laugh.

I don't think so..

I wish that those who take the time to comment have at least taken the time to read EVERYTHING that has been posted, not just what is here, but what was said on Live Journal by the very people being defended.

Ted is not wrong here. Forget for a minute that you belong to AW. Forget for a moment that you are showing support for the person running AW. Now, start at the beginning then read Live Journal, all 72 comments on Med's site and see just how welcome anyone who showed concern for the symbol being taken as offensive. Then read all Ted has carefully laid out. Ask yourself this, if one was merely expressing pride in his faith, which BTW represents peace, is this how one defends that right?

Now, the original offense, when so many have commented all the horror it stirs up, they are called many things. Then of course everything became a sarcastic circus. In the end, no matter who you feel is right or wrong, you can not take away what a person FEELS. No matter how many times you say what the symbol is, it still stirs raw emotion. If Bart wasn't looking to get a reaction, why would he start a thread and ask "What do you see?"

If he truly wanted to deepen his faith, why would he not just have the complete picture in his sig instead of a puzzle with two links?

Defend all you want, name call as you please, but remember this, Too many people ignored pure hatred in the past and too many lives were lost. We can never let that happen again, EVER.

Anonymous said...

You know, I read through all those threads, and Teddy hasn't taken anything out of context. AW IS run by a Hate Mob. EX-AW-er.

Anonymous said...

I read through all the threads and I don't think TeddyG's interpretation is wrong at all either.

AW is just like high school. They all pile on and beat up the new kids, and if they don't like you or what you think, they beat you up, too, so you learn to only say what they want to hear so you don't get hurt and can have friends. I'm an ex-AWer now, and can safely say that.

Ted W. Gross said...

My apologies for not publishing the comments sooner.

I simply did not have the time to review them or deal with this issue for the past few days.

All comments in the queue have now been published.